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Old 07-02-2009, 07:35 AM   #16
greybush

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjawhiteboy12 View Post
a question for this thread, what is the rule of thumb for size alternator to how many wrms you are running say:
1000 wrms= x alternator
2000 wrms= x alternator
3000 wrms= x alternator
ect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare177 View Post
this is hard to assume, depends on the music you listen to, depends on how efficient the amp is, rock music has less heavy bass demand compared to say rap music.

i would say 80amps is good for about 1000 watts, but once again this depends on alot of things, one way people work it out, which isn't very accurate due to inefficiency, is watts / voltage = required amperage, so lets say, 1000wrms / 14 = 71amps, this does not account that an amp is never 100% efficient.

for example, i own a car with a 100amp alternator, as of now, my system currently is only 1000 watts, 250x2 for speakers, 500 for the substage, problem is though, both my speakers and substage are class a/b, not so efficient, even with the big 3 done, i still get voltage drops and major dimming with the volume up, now i listen to alot of bass heavy music, like jeezy etc.

with amps, bigger is always better, you can never have too much power supplied to your system.
It's also hard to determine what is the right size alternator due to the fact that you have to consider how many electrical components are running on the car not including your audio system, IE power windows, locks, a/c, headlights, turn signals, etc. You have to consider your car as a whole not just the audio system when looking for an alternator. If you are running an 80 amp alternator, 70 to 80% of the electrical pull could be dedicated to the electronics in the car alone. I suppose a safe way to look at upgrading your alternator is to do the math and find out how many amps your audio system alone is going to pull. Say it pulls 60 amps by itself and you are running an 80 amp alternator you may want to look into something like a 140 amp alternator...
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Old 07-02-2009, 07:39 AM   #17
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keep in mind though, most the things you listed arent continuously drawing current, the lights will at night, and the a/c will if its on, i would give an extra 20-30 amps if you have an electric heavy car than what you estimate for your audio system.
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Old 07-02-2009, 11:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91Chevy View Post
Capacitors can make or break your sound system. When used in the proper application, Capacitors are very beneficial to your vehicle’s electrical system. It can stop your system from dropping to dangerously low levels when your system has high power demands. However, when used in improper applications, they can often cause serious issues.

How a capacitor works: Capacitors store an electrical charge, and discharge that charge very quickly when required. The battery charges the capacitor, and when the system is drawing excessive current, the capacitor will discharge, then continue to recharge itself.

The proper application for a capacitor: Say you have a sound system, with proper charging system, such as a high-output alternator, as well as multiple high quality batteries. The system works flawlessly; however, whenever the bass hits hard notes, you get dimming. Yet when the heavy notes cease, the dimming ceases. This is because your charging system is capable of feeding adequate power to your system under ordinary circumstances. Yet when the heavy bass notes hit, it draws a very large amount of current for a fraction of a second, which your charging system cannot keep up with. In this case, the capacitor discharges, sending addition current and allowing your charging system to keep up. Since your charging system is powerful enough to feed your system under ordinary circumstances, it can also recharge the capacitor without hindering the performance of your audio system.

The improper application for a capacitor: Your sound system gets dimming during regular play; your charging system is just incapable of providing enough power to supply your sound system. So you decide to install a capacitor, as you’ve been told it will help with your dimming. You charge your capacitor, and go to test out your system, just to find that your dimming either hasn’t been fixed, or has even worsened. This is because your charging system cannot supply enough power to power your audio system, so the capacitor discharges to ‘help’ it out. Since the capacitor has discharged, it needs to recharge. But since your charging system can’t keep up as it is, it puts even more of a strain on your charging system to both charge the capacitor and keep your sound system playing.

Why the ‘Big 3’ is beneficial: By upgrading the Alternator + to Battery +, Chassis to Battery -, and Engine Block to Chassis wires, you make your charging system more efficient. There’s less resistance, allowing more of the amperage coming from your alternator to reach the battery, and less to be dissipated as heat. If your battery recharges faster, it will help or solve dimming in most occasions.

Summarized, a capacitor is very useful when running a system that is equipped with a High-output electrical system, capable of handling charging the capacitor as well as the batteries. It's not wise to run a capacitor on a stock electrical system which only produces just enough power to charge the battery, as well as powering the system. Adding a capacitor will simply put even more strain on the charging system, making it's job even harder that it already was.



how come benahn hasn't got in on the action to call everyone an idiot
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Old 07-02-2009, 12:34 PM   #19
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It should be noted that capacitors are actually another draw on the system, all the time. The cap doesn't just sit there with a stored charge, it's charge fluctuates constantly with the system voltage, and it requires a charge along with the rest of the system. A capacitor will actually discharge just as fast as the system voltage drops, rendering it useless in the overall scheme of things.

While a capacitor can work well to aid in transient response to a very slight degree, it is essentially a completely worthless, power robbing marketing ploy.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandt38 View Post
It should be noted that capacitors are actually another draw on the system, all the time. The cap doesn't just sit there with a stored charge, it's charge fluctuates constantly with the system voltage, and it requires a charge along with the rest of the system. A capacitor will actually discharge just as fast as the system voltage drops, rendering it useless in the overall scheme of things.

While a capacitor can work well to aid in transient response to a very slight degree, it is essentially a completely worthless, power robbing marketing ploy.
i agree and i know there are a few other car audio componets that are even more worthless speaker wire is one of the biggest rip off scams. caps came to be because of compitition not daily drivers and they made the difference between wining and loosing. i have never sugested and dont plan too sugest anyone buy a cap. i think people are being riped off just like sandt38 said but without intellagent ansers to peoples post on forums like this there will continue to be people buying them without knowing what they are for. still less worthless than monster wire lol. caps do ofer a slight aid in transient response and they often have a digital vu meter that gives people a way to see what there system is doing at the amp. there are new lower lsr caps coming into play that i would like to play with because i like doing things a little differently and it gives you all somthing funny to laugh at. i am going to be sending pics of my build log for two 200 amp alts starting tomarow hopefully if i get my second one in friday i just droped off the three wire core at the shop. an interesting note was that they told me not to go larger than 4ga on the power wire because that can burn out the first diode.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benahn7 View Post
i agree and i know there are a few other car audio componets that are even more worthless speaker wire is one of the biggest rip off scams. caps came to be because of compitition not daily drivers and they made the difference between wining and loosing. i have never sugested and dont plan too sugest anyone buy a cap. i think people are being riped off just like sandt38 said but without intellagent ansers to peoples post on forums like this there will continue to be people buying them without knowing what they are for. still less worthless than monster wire lol. caps do ofer a slight aid in transient response and they often have a digital vu meter that gives people a way to see what there system is doing at the amp. there are new lower lsr caps coming into play that i would like to play with because i like doing things a little differently and it gives you all somthing funny to laugh at. i am going to be sending pics of my build log for two 200 amp alts starting tomarow hopefully if i get my second one in friday i just droped off the three wire core at the shop. an interesting note was that they told me not to go larger than 4ga on the power wire because that can burn out the first diode.
You could wire in a voltage meter rather than buying a cap with a voltage meter. It would be cheaper and avoid putting more strain on your electrical.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:08 PM   #22
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as usual you dont understand but keep trying you might get it someday
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benahn7 View Post
caps do ofer a slight aid in transient response and they often have a digital vu meter that gives people a way to see what there system is doing at the amp.
I don't see how I didn't get it, I simply added to your post that you could wire a voltage meter and save money for the same end result.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:14 PM   #24
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ok sorry love you too
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benahn7 View Post
i agree and i know there are a few other car audio componets that are even more worthless speaker wire is one of the biggest rip off scams.

... still less worthless than monster wire lol.
To a certain extent I agree. In a car where the noise floor is high there isn't much to notice, but in a very low noise floor app like a home, they make a difference. Of course, the signal is only as good as the gear, so someone with a $300 Onkyo with a pair of $100 bookshelfs won't gain anything by using $100 speaker wire. But someone running $20,000 VAC amps and $30,000 pre-amps with $50,000 Tidal Contriva Diaceras would notice better depth and spaciousness with high end cables.

But the same can be argued with amps, too. Sitting still you may hear a difference between a Tru Copper and my Cadence, but going down the road the gains in image, stage, and spaciousness disappear. So IMHO high end amps are more of a rip-off then cable.
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Old 07-02-2009, 05:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandt38 View Post
To a certain extent I agree. In a car where the noise floor is high there isn't much to notice, but in a very low noise floor app like a home, they make a difference. Of course, the signal is only as good as the gear, so someone with a $300 Onkyo with a pair of $100 bookshelfs won't gain anything by using $100 speaker wire. But someone running $20,000 VAC amps and $30,000 pre-amps with $50,000 Tidal Contriva Diaceras would notice better depth and spaciousness with high end cables.

But the same can be argued with amps, too. Sitting still you may hear a difference between a Tru Copper and my Cadence, but going down the road the gains in image, stage, and spaciousness disappear. So IMHO high end amps are more of a rip-off then cable.
yep thats like compairing compitition car audio to daily drivers using caps i think you might get a little more from the caps than the wire but not much. i started my home systems with altec lansings eliptical needle turntables bought into the quadrafonic wave still have some true quadrafonic stuff. kind of tells you how old i am i am still using my infinate slope speakers. home audio was pretty much plug and play for me so i am learning a lot now with car audio that i never needed to know before and i realy do like everyones help thanks
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Old 07-02-2009, 09:13 PM   #27
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I'm bored. Any other articles I should write?
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Old 07-03-2009, 03:14 AM   #28
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I'm bored. Any other articles I should write?
write a PM to a mod who can stick this, PS1 would probably be your best bet
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:23 PM   #29
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Muaha. New idea. Expect updates within the next 2-4 weeks.
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:19 PM   #30
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caps only work when you have an adquate power supply......
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