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Old 07-30-2006, 07:50 PM   #16
blowup

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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolemon
I haven't clicked any of those links in that list, but if they are like "all the others" out there, what they have are the textbook descriptions of what the specs are.
Blah, blah, blah.

I like to process information that I read through this filter:
"How can I take that to the store and use it to buy a loaf of bread?"


Those textbook definitions - they probably won't help you understand where one specs trades off in favor of another, they probably won't help you understand how to compare one sub against another in pursuit of ultimate "bang for the buck", and they probably won't help you understand how to build your enclosure, or determine the enclosure needs, or trade-offs of one sub compared to another...

And if you find yourself reading those "textbook" definitions, and not understanding how to apply them in a practical context - you'll still end up looking on the manufacturer's spec sheets right past the specs, down to the "manufacturer's recommended enclosures" section.

So, I wrote up a list of "what really matters" with T/S specs:
http://www.caraudiocentral.net/forum...ead.php?t=4005

(I thought I started a thread on this forum too... guess I didn't, probably was "too busy" that day or something. Maybe I should create a sticky in the Technical forum, for how often this question gets raised around here these days? )

I hope that helps with what I believe you are actually looking for.
maybe you should click on some of them instead of speculating ... they are customer oriented without getting in real technical stuff...
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Old 07-30-2006, 10:01 PM   #17
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I like the wikipedia and Hometheaterhifi ones. It's nice to see actual equations behind the specs and how some relate to others. The Hometheaterhifi one goes beyond that generic definition.

I wouldn't mind having a comprehensive sticky with the combination of these aspects: definition, equation, and short discusion of what it means in laymens terms, pluses/minuses of too high/low of values, and value ranges one would look for in certain applications.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2
I like the wikipedia and Hometheaterhifi ones. It's nice to see actual equations behind the specs and how some relate to others. The Hometheaterhifi one goes beyond that generic definition.

I wouldn't mind having a comprehensive sticky with the combination of these aspects: definition, equation, and short discusion of what it means in laymens terms, pluses/minuses of too high/low of values, and value ranges one would look for in certain applications.
Actually, xxPunkORamaxx made a more "technical" comment in my thread, that I split out into it's own thread - I believe that would be a great forum for that discussion, and we might be able to collect enough to sticky THAT too.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blowup
maybe you should click on some of them instead of speculating ... they are customer oriented without getting in real technical stuff...
And exactly how would that have affected the post I made?

I would have changed what?
Maybe the part of my post that reads "...but if they are like..." would have been changed into "I know for sure that some of those links are like..."

Perhaps you've got a lively little internet connection and plenty of time to waste (I don't), but it doesn't seem like even you have enough time to spend actually reading enough of my post to comprehend the points I was making, much less click all those links yourself.
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Old 07-31-2006, 07:25 PM   #20
xxPunk0Ramaxx

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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolemon
Actually, xxPunkORamaxx made a more "technical" comment in my thread, that I split out into it's own thread - I believe that would be a great forum for that discussion, and we might be able to collect enough to sticky THAT too.
well it gets boring discussing it by myself. jump in there anytime geo
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Old 07-31-2006, 08:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxPunk0Ramaxx
well it gets boring discussing it by myself. jump in there anytime geo
**** you just can't have converstations with yourself like GEO and you find yourself a boring person.
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:32 PM   #22
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bump......
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassfreak

Xmax- this spec is often over looked and very hyped. It is the measure of excursion of the motor in linear terms similar to KMS but for the electrical side of the driver. its defined as when the B/L drops to 71% of total B/L you have a QES that has doubled and its consider non linear.
.
Just as an aside, I believe this is only the DLC audio "DUMAX" definition of X-max. There are a decent amount of other definitions as well, but it all comes down to the fact that they all try to relate the amount of excursion the speaker can travel before nonlinear travel and distortion become an issue. Some base the threshold point on a length of coil in the gap, some base it on the point the coil completely leaves the gap, some use BL and kms values.

I BELIEVE, the current definition of x-max is

the voice-coil peak displacement at which the "linearity"of the motor deviates by 10%. Linearity may be measured by percent distortion of the input current or by percent deviation of displacement versus input current. (AES 2-1984)


Some people, like Klipple would like the definition to be much more complex:

Quote:
The voice-coil peak displacement Xmax at which either the total harmonic distortion dt or the nth-order modulation distortion (where n=2 or 3) exceeds 10% in the sound pressure radiated by the driver in free air excited by the linear superposition of a first tone at the resonance frequency f1=fs and a second tone f2=8.5 fs with an amplitude ratio of 4:1.
The total harmonic distortion dt assesses the harmonics of f1 and the modulation distortion are measured by the modulation components f2 nf1 according to IEC 60268.



Just thought I would throw that in
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:16 PM   #24
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funny thing about that definition you listed from klippel...

he mentioned making use of a the frequency of resonance and then a second frequency above that. this is the exact same idea Dan Wiggins mentioned about 2.5 years ago when there was a discussion about including THD and Le non-linearities when determining xmax.

remind me to throw you some rep after i've spread some around

Last edited by xxPunk0Ramaxx; 08-01-2006 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 08-03-2006, 11:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolemon
And exactly how would that have affected the post I made?

I would have changed what?
Maybe the part of my post that reads "...but if they are like..." would have been changed into "I know for sure that some of those links are like..."

Perhaps you've got a lively little internet connection and plenty of time to waste (I don't), but it doesn't seem like even you have enough time to spend actually reading enough of my post to comprehend the points I was making, much less click all those links yourself.
I did my search in 2 minutes picking and chosing whatever is on a basic level... It took me less to read your post and reply... I have plenty of real life and 10Mbps connection... Again, you surprise me by going on and on with speculations... Even with a shiitty dial up connection, I would check out some of the links instead of doing this what if stuff...
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Old 08-06-2006, 09:44 PM   #26
bassfreak

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bump...........
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Old 08-08-2006, 09:39 PM   #27
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bump for the newbies! any suggestions? questions? anything!
I want to give everyone a chance to read this even though its not the best post its pretty easy to understand IMO
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:59 PM   #28
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CAF is the next CarSound, aka dying.
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Old 08-13-2006, 02:09 PM   #29
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the powa of BUMP
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Old 08-13-2006, 02:46 PM   #30
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great job bassfreak

thanks
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