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Old 02-21-2007, 09:19 AM   #46
Thnking

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCS
Also, there is nothing wrong with my "solution" -Its a simple Ohms law substitution and some simplification.
Not to be critical, but you simply can't go from (N/A)˛/Re to (N˛2*R)/(V˛) without a lot inbetween. Sure there’s nothing “wrong” with it, but it doesn’t make any sense.
It’s not a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCS
Did'nt put the 1/2 term on the W... typo, but yes, it is a factor/number but is important because it remains constant from driver to driver where the BL won't if the Re is changed.

I like looking at the squared version because it shows more linear relationship from loudspeaker to loudspeaker which is as I explained more appropriate. No biggie really.
Neither show a relation to output or actual motor force generated, they only give a limiting force factor.
The most significant number to motor force generated still would be B*l*I, or B*l* (V/R)
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:47 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffDaddy_d
Before taking the time to compare linear output potentials amoung sealed subwoofers... If this is your first system, you should start by finding out what type of subwoofer setup will best suit your needs. Useful information regarding this process can be found at this link: How to Buy a Subwoofer

How loud a woofer can get in a sealed box is usually determined by its displacement. Displacement is basically how much air the woofer moves in each stroke. The more displacement, the louder it will be. Displacement is measured in Liters and you can use this spec to get a GENERAL idea about which sub will be able to get louder. 2-Way Linear Displacement = xmax*sd*2.

Since everyone always argues about which "super sub" is better, I figured that I would at least help to make it easier for everyone to see how much each sub can displace. SQ is always subjective. This thread is just to be used as a reference for the displacement capabilities of these commonly discussed "super subs". It is not intended to start ANOTHER long, drawn-out, conversation about which is "better".

JL Audio 12w7 = 3.1436 Liters
MTX 9512 = 2.748 Liters
Adire Brahma12 MKII = 2.5288 Liters
Adire Brahma12 MKIII = 2.4852 Liters
IDmax12 = 2.6814 Liters
Sound Splinter RL-s = 3.9039 Liters
Resonant Engineering 12-XXX = 3.072 Liters
Resonant Engineering 2006 12-XXX = 5.184 Liters
TC Sounds TC-2000 = 2.7475 Liters
TC Sounds TC-3000 = 3.0387 Liters

Since a lot of the "super subs" that we are used to talking about don't seem to be in stock, I've taken the liberty of creating this guide for the "sub-super subs". These are some of the MOST talked about 12-inch Subs:

Sound Splinter RL-p = 2.2796 Liters
Dayton Titanic MKIII = 1.671 Liters
Acoustic Elegance AV12 = 2.2908 Liters
Alpine Type-R = 1.7472 Liters
Alpine Type-X = 2.0207 Liters
Stereo Integrity MagD2 = 2.304 Liters
Resonant Engineering SE = 1.720 Liters
Resonant Engineering SX = 2.112 Liters
Resonant Engineering MX = 2.112 Liters
Kicker L7 = 1.7028 Liters
JL Audio W6v2 = 1.6566 Liters
Elemental Designs 13Ov2 = 1.9947 Liters
TC Sounds TC-1000 = 2.355 Liters
Ascendant Audio Arsenal = 2.173 Liters

Keep in mind that these numbers are for linear displacement ONLY. These numbers will NOT be the determining factor for which sub will give the best over-all performance. Also, all calculations were made with specs directly from the manufacturers website (except RE).

Can this list be updated to reflect what's available currently? AA Arsenal and Adire for instance.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:05 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHilPOT
Can this list be updated to reflect what's available currently? AA Arsenal and Adire for instance.
Eh, I've got a couple of reservations about updating this list. For one, there will ALWAYS be new subs coming out on the market and it will be impossible to keep up with all of them. On top of that, this list was mainly created to contain the most talked about subs on this forum to make for an easy/quick reference. Also, even if the sub you're looking for isn't on the list, the intro to the thread provides you with the ability to calculate the LD of that sub... which is really the most important part in order to make the comparisons.

You can give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day...

But yes - it would be misleading to keep the old calculations of a subwoofer (like the Arsenal) when it's newest version has different specs. Good catch.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:31 PM   #49
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what about the Rockford Fosgate T2 (T212D2).
Cerwin Vega Stroker Pro.
Mtx's old sub that used to be their top line, RFL. or their newer one the True Jack Hammer.

I can't stand mtx though I think they suck but its still a worthy sub to list.
The T2 has the least power handling out of these but I think its on par with the JL W7 though. It doesn't have a huge x-max (i believe 19mm) but it is a solid and like usual with rockford very underrated sub. If you've ever had one or handled one I'm sure you can atest to its quality. It will handle past its rated capabilities for hours no problem.

I have 1 currently installed to a T10001BD and they are a perfect match for each other. The birthsheet of the amp said 1555 watts RMS and i pound it full force with the gain on max all day long and it hasn't even thought of complaining yet.
I have 3 more of these subs chilling in my garage, I'm awaiting more box contructing and a T40001BD to drive them.

Last edited by platinumplus; 03-06-2008 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:04 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumplus View Post
what about the Rockford Fosgate T2 (T212D2).
Cerwin Vega Stroker Pro.
Mtx's old sub that used to be their top line, RFL. or their newer one the True Jack Hammer.

I can't stand mtx though I think they suck but its still a worthy sub to list.
The T2 has the least power handling out of these but I think its on par with the JL W7 though. It doesn't have a huge x-max (i believe 19mm) but it is a solid and like usual with rockford very underrated sub. If you've ever had one or handled one I'm sure you can atest to its quality. It will handle past its rated capabilities for hours no problem.

I have 1 currently installed to a T10001BD and they are a perfect match for each other. The birthsheet of the amp said 1555 watts RMS and i pound it full force with the gain on max all day long and it hasn't even thought of complaining yet.
I have 3 more of these subs chilling in my garage, I'm awaiting more box contructing and a T40001BD to drive them.
From post #1 on page #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffDaddy_d
This thread is just to be used as a reference for the displacement capabilities of these commonly discussed "super subs"... These are some of the MOST talked about 12-inch Subs...
On top of that, the T2 is NOT a sealed box woofer, so it would not be appropriate to reference it. I will need to update the list sometime soon though to remove some woofers that are no longer available and include some new ones that are now getting discussed on this forum pretty often.
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:50 PM   #51
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Question kicker subs

hey you have the kickerL7 on your list but what about the kicker cvx or kickerL5?
which one of them will be louder and what are the factors that makes a sub loud?

Me and a friend both are kind of new when it comes to the technical terms with subs but me andhim together have done many setups together.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:08 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinam View Post
hey you have the kickerL7 on your list but what about the kicker cvx or kickerL5?
which one of them will be louder and what are the factors that makes a sub loud?

Me and a friend both are kind of new when it comes to the technical terms with subs but me andhim together have done many setups together.
Maybe I'm not understanding your question, but the first post in this thread is designed to tell you exactly what factors help to determine how loud a woofer can get (in a sealed enclosure). This list is old and the CVX was not around then. Also, it only lists the most talked about woofers at the time and the entry level L5 simply doesn't measure up to these more capable woofers. I will update the list some day, but the point is to teach you how to compare the linear output potentials of different woofers for yourself. The equation in that first post is the key.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffDaddy_d View Post
Maybe I'm not understanding your question, but the first post in this thread is designed to tell you exactly what factors help to determine how loud a woofer can get (in a sealed enclosure). This list is old and the CVX was not around then. Also, it only lists the most talked about woofers at the time and the entry level L5 simply doesn't measure up to these more capable woofers. I will update the list some day, but the point is to teach you how to compare the linear output potentials of different woofers for yourself. The equation in that first post is the key.
alright i understand man. wat are the variable in your equation man. i dont understand them so can you clarify them for me?
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Old 04-21-2008, 02:51 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinam View Post
alright i understand man. wat are the variable in your equation man. i dont understand them so can you clarify them for me?
They are subwoofer specs. You can learn more about them in the STICKIES (below this one) we have for T/S Parameters.
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Old 04-27-2008, 04:45 AM   #55
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Hey guys - Vas is impossible to determine with complete objectiveness - and it changes with drive level and and air temp etc... As such, factors that are dependent on linear drive levels have to be determined on a driver to driver basis... The interaction between Mms, Bl and Cms play a heavy roll in linearity and as such, VD and overal Eff. which in turns dictates Sens.

As well there is at least 10-20% swings between product runs known as QC issues...

At a minimum Bl Curves and general Sensitivity would have to added to these depictions - but even then the word linear should be removed - allowing the remaining data to view as useful for selecting a group of drivers for audit - from the perspctive of SPL - as in which is most likely the loudest - not the most linear...

In other words a good filtered starting point ONLY!



You cannot trust these values
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Old 02-11-2009, 02:28 PM   #56
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I would also add the Memphis MOJO to that list. Not sure of the displacement, but they bang just about as hard as anything when boxed correctly.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:46 PM   #57
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what is a fi btl displacement cant believe u didnt post those those seem to be the true super subwoofers
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:01 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret thomas View Post
what is a fi btl displacement cant believe u didnt post those those seem to be the true super subwoofers
Fi Car Audio did not exist when this thread was first made. Besides, it's not designed to be a sealed box woofer. If you are still interested in its linear displacement capability, then the formula from the first post can be used for the BTL as well.
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:55 PM   #59
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what about DLS KW12 sub?
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:45 AM   #60
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i have an eclipse XA1000 amp, and i need a new 12" sub for it, what specs should the sub woofer have to be campatable with my amp?
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