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Old 04-18-2006, 03:09 PM   #1
ComfortablyNumb

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Power Thread

I don't often start a thread over here in General. So I thought I would. With Spring here/just around the corner, and quite a few new installs going on. I thought I'd post some links to websites that deal with supplying power to a system.

Power & Ground cable chart
http://www.the12volt.com/info/recwirsz.asp

Wire's
Stinger
Tsunami
Streetwires
KnuKonceptz
Darvex
Parts Express
WeldingSupply
Elemental Designs

Alternators
AlterStart
H-O Alternator
Mean-Green
MotorCityReman
Nations Starter & Alternator
Ohio Generator
Quickstart alternators
MSD Ignition
Iraggi Alternator <-Import applications, thanks to Hendrix9402 for the link.
Ace Alternator Also has import applications.

Adjustable Voltage Regulator's
http://store.alternatorparts.com/partno91104.aspx

Dual Alternator Tutorial
Dave's DC Electric

Other Assorted Electrical sites
Waytek wire
Del City
SkyCraft Parts & Surplus
Remy Battery (good prices on Deka, Optima, and others)
Electronic Goldmine
Ba-Electronics


Battery Isolator
http://www.hellroaring.com/audio.php
Quality Power <-200 amp relay for battery isolation

Gain Setting Tutorial

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/gainSetting.pdf
http://www.thesuicidaleggroll.com/gain.htm

Best Ignition wires I know of.
Magnecor

-------------------------------------------------
Battery links.

Want a battery box for a gigantic RV battery for the ultimate in engine off, runtime?
The RV battery for the above box. 1350 Cold Cranking Amps! 475 minutes of Reserve Capacity! It only weighs 162 lbs. Put that in your Neon or Civic
Some very high reserve capacity Batteries. Including the above Lifeline 8D.
AC Delco
Deka battery
Exide
Interstate battery
Kinetik Audio
Odyssey battery
Optima Batteries
Stinger
Trojan battery
Turbo Start
Cabela's...Yes Cabela's!
NorthStar

Big 3 Tutorials
http://www.sounddomain.com/ubbthread...e/1#Post312025
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...TID=73496&PN=1

Some Battery Terminology.
Cranking Amps. Similar to CCA; Cranking amps is a measure of the number of amperes a lead acid battery at 32 degrees F can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell. (CA ratings are more commonly used in climates where temperatures rarely drop to 0F.)

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) The cold cranking ampere (CCA) rating refers to the number of amperes a battery can support for 30 seconds at a temperature of 0F until the battery voltage drops to 1.20 volts per cell, or 7.20 volts for a 12V battery. Thus, a 12V battery that carries a rating of 600 CCA tells us that the battery will provide 600 amperes for 30 seconds at 0F before the voltage falls to 7.20V

MCA The marine cranking ampere (MCA) rating refers to the number of amperes a battery can support for 30 seconds at a temperature of 32F until the battery voltage drops to 1.20 volts per cell, or 7.20 volts for a 12V battery. Thus, a 12V battery that carries a MCA rating of 600 CCA tells us that the battery will provide 600 amperes for 30 seconds at 32F before the voltage falls to 7.20V.

Define the difference between MCA and CCA.
The marine cranking ampere (MCA) rating of a battery is very similar to the CCA rating; the only difference is that while the CCA is measured at a temperature of 0F, the MCA is measured at 32F. All other requirements are the same — the ampere draw is for 30 seconds and the end of discharge voltage in both cases is 1.20 volts per cell.

Ampere-hour rating (Ah). The ampere-hour (Ah) rating defines the capacity of a battery. A typical battery that is rated as a 100Ah battery at the 10 hour rate of discharge is capable of delivering 10A for 10 hours before the terminal voltage drops to a standard value such as 1.67 volts per cell, or 10.02 volts for a 12V battery. Similarly, a 50Ah battery would supply a 5A load for 10 hours. The BP1000 battery is rated at 42Ah, so it can furnish 4.2A for 10 hours.

Reserve Capacity (RC). The reserve capacity of a battery is defined as the number of minutes that it can support a 25 ampere load at 80F until its terminal voltage drops to 1.75 volts per cell or 10.50 volts for a 12V battery. Thus a 12V battery that has a reserve capacity rating of 100 signifies that it can be discharged at 25 amps for 100 minutes at 80F before its voltage drops to 10.5 volts.

Absorbed (or absorptive) Glass Mat (AGM)
A technique for sealed lead-acid batteries. The electrolyte is absorbed in a matrix of glass fibers, which holds the electrolyte next to the plate, and immobilizes it preventing spills. AGM batteries tend to have good power characteristics, low internal resistance, and good behavior during charging.

Amp-hour
Unit of electrical energy, one amp of current flowing for one hour. Abbreviated Ah

BCI
Battery council international. Promoters of battery standards, notably the "Group sizes" which specify the external dimensions of a battery.

Deep cycle battery. A battery designed to be discharged to below 80% Depth of Discharge. Used in marine, traction and EV applications.

Electrolyte
An electrically conductive medium, in which current flow is due to the movement of ions. In a lead-acid battery, the electrolyte is a solution of sulfuric acid. In other batteries, the electrolyte may be very different.

Flooded cell
A design for lead-acid batteries. The electrolyte is an ordinary liquid solution of acid. Flooded cells are prone to making gas while being charged. Flooded cells must be periodically checked for fluid level and water added as necessary. Flooded cells are also typically less expensive than AGM or gel type lead-acid batteries.

Gel Cell
A technique for sealed lead-acid batteries. The electrolyte solution is in a gel form, usually silica gel, instead of plain liquid.

Group size
A set of standard sizes for the external dimensions of a battery, standardized by BCI. All "group 27", etc, batteries are the same size, though they may differ in weight and capacity.

Internal resistance. Resistance to the flow of DC electric current within a cell, causing a voltage drop across the cell in closed circuit proportional to the current drain from the cell. A low internal impedance is usually required for a high rate cell.

Last edited by ComfortablyNumb; 11-02-2010 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:23 PM   #2
JLAudioCavalier

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A post with a purpous and no bull. thank you sir for being helpfull!
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:51 PM   #3
fmshaw1971

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Esoteric Audio used to make top quality wire and interconnects. I had it in my last system, but that was a LONG time ago. It's amazing how many companies have gone out of business since the car audio heyday.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:53 PM   #4
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nice job cnumb
good work
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Old 04-18-2006, 04:48 PM   #5
geolemon

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Great post - should help a lot of people!

For people shopping, I just wanted to add a couple comments:

Wiring - "Welding wire" can be less flexible than the uber-stranded stuff we typically get in the car audio world, if that is an issue for anyone... although it can be a little less expensive. But Knu sells car audio specific stuff at discount prices anyway.

Alternators - ...are a scary thing to buy. Nothing is worse than getting done with your weekend install of this expensive alternator - to discover that it actually has LESS current output below 2000 RPM than your factory alternator had. Even if it delivers 250a at high RPM's, that would be of little value to me, personally... or to anyone looking for high power for crusing.
Some manufacturers publish plots, that show current output at various engine RPM's (or at least alternator RPM's).

Battery isolator - can be a nice thing to include, since it prevents you from draining BOTH batteries... but isn't necessary by any means, for people looking to add a second battery. Alternatively, you can add a second battery even close-coupled to your amp rack (for maximum efficiency!), by simply wiring it to your distribution block, just like your amps are wired! And simply ground the battery to the same place your amps are grounded. It's not isolated, but even still, you'll double the amount of time you can run the system with the car turned off completely before you discharge the batteries.

Also wanted to add - "You get what you pay for" - and this is as much a law of nature as the law of gravity is.
You need to understand where your savings are coming from, if you are getting something exceptionally cheap...
Is it cheap, because it is simply... "cheap"? Poor design, poor manufacturing, etc?
OR hidden costs to you - like unbelievably expensive shipping?
Or is it cheap because of an innovative business model, maybe eliminating middlemen, eliminating red tape, etc?
You do get what you pay for.
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Old 04-18-2006, 05:17 PM   #6
ComfortablyNumb

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Great Post Geo. That's why I tried to have more than just a couple links to Alternator websites. Some of the Alternator companies(like Quickstart and Motor City Reman) Provide Info on Amperage output exactly like what you mentioned. There is also quite a wide range of prices when it comes to HO Alt's.
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Old 04-18-2006, 05:44 PM   #7
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Hrmz, I've been looking for an alternator list for some time now.

<--- Just for you.
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Old 04-18-2006, 05:44 PM   #8
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this thread gets my seal of approval



though I really dont have anything additional to offer other than maybe a webpage with a plethora of info on installing stuff with a focus on wiring:
http://www.installdr.com/TechDocs.html

and possibly a "Big 3" upgrade tutorial:
http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/u...=5;t=007801;p=
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Old 04-18-2006, 05:50 PM   #9
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Nice .. very helpful list.



This thread gets my vote for new sticky ..
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Old 04-18-2006, 06:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodaddy
Hrmz, I've been looking for an alternator list for some time now.

<--- Just for you.
me too....i also like spacemonkey's idea with the install dr and the big 3 link
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Old 04-18-2006, 06:53 PM   #11
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sniff, sniff....I smell a sticky!


This would be a GREAT sticky in the "Installation Help" forum.
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Old 04-18-2006, 07:01 PM   #12
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HO Alternators
http://www.excessiveamperage.com
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Old 04-19-2006, 06:35 AM   #13
ComfortablyNumb

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I've always thought there should be a "sticky section". Most of the post's in there would be Geo's. So we could call it "Geolemon's sticky section". You know what I mean.

Last edited by ComfortablyNumb; 04-19-2006 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 04-19-2006, 06:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffDaddy_d
sniff, sniff....I smell a sticky!


This would be a GREAT sticky in the "Installation Help" forum.
whoa you mean people actually go in the installation forum?
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Old 04-19-2006, 06:51 AM   #15
sprackydoo

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A word on weldingsupply.com When I placed my order they called me 1 week later (after they said they shipped it) and said they just got the wire in stock after a week I called them back and they said, "oh... we don't have that wire in stock noone called you? You can change the color or order a spool cuz I sure don't want to (order a spool)" Their customer service blows but once that was out of the way they were speedy in processing my order. I would still buy from them but only if the item was in stock lol

BTW geo, in my experience welding wire is plenty flexible. If a wire wasn't flexible it wouldn't be suitable for welding with
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