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BLUETHUNDER
11-25-1999, 09:15 PM
Where can you find these subs online... if you can.. And how much you expect to spend on a pair of 8812 dvc'c.... I heard them today in a car, and they were incredible...And you know since cristmas is just around the corner.. Any help would be appreciated....

Stupid Question too, are eclipse headunits, speakers, and Subs, all the same manufacturer?
Thanks

TEX

Satan
11-25-1999, 09:54 PM
I am looking into getting a pair of 8810's, what kind of sound did they put out? I'm looking for subs that produce accurate tight bass that reproduce metal and rock bass notes quite well.

As far as the manufacturer of elcipse, thats Fujitsu-Ten, http://www.eclipse-web.com

JStrahn
11-26-1999, 01:16 AM
Eclipse doesn't allow their products to be sold online. Not by anyone. As far as the 8812s, I think retail on them is like $300 per sub, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe even higher than that. They are GREAT subs. They are tight and musical subs, but great spl also. If you want to buy eclipse online, your only option is probably ebay, which you would find mostly used.
-Jesse

ELGEric
11-26-1999, 01:26 AM
I recently bought an Eclipse 8812. The retail was $370 and, for that price, they sucked ***! I hate these subs considering i got an Audiobahn Alum12 for $150 shipped that sounds better (tighter and lower)! Granted, the eclipse subs are good, but they're not worth the money. Probably the best sub for the money is the Infinity Perfects. They sound just as good as the Audiobahns and can withstand more abuse (meaning they'll go louder).

Peace

ELGEric
11-26-1999, 01:27 AM
oh, and by the way, the 8812's bottom out VERY easily. This is EXTREMELY bad for people who own hatchbacks or SUV's, since you can clearly hear the deficiency in the sound. You can do MUCH better for the money.

eRiC

Warbleed
11-27-1999, 09:26 AM
The Perfects are great subs, but the 8812s are better. What size was the box? They won't have a very low F3 or low Q in a small sealed box, 1 cubic foot and over is the lowest I'd go for the 12.

Warbleed
11-27-1999, 09:43 AM
Bad box, dumb**** settings, only explanation for bottoming it out "easily". It has fairly high excursion, so bottoming easily just doesn't happen.

Warbleed
11-27-1999, 10:42 AM
I also remember reviewers sending 1000 to theirs with no problems at all.

Warbleed
11-27-1999, 10:43 AM
One of the installers at my local shop said the boxes have to be sealed really well because they find leaks that other subs don't.

Warbleed
11-27-1999, 10:44 AM
dah! Piss off ISE gods, don't make me *****-slap the **** outta ya.

JStrahn
11-27-1999, 01:01 PM
Where should I start...8800 Eclipse subs are great. As far as audiobahn alum subs sounding better, either you are deaf, or your setup wasn't right for the 8812s. These subs have much longer excursion than a perfect, so I don't really know what you are talking about. I've listened to all three subs, and the 8800s were by far the best, the perfects were very nice and I thought the alum12 audiobahns sounded OK. There IS a reason the subs are so expensive. They are very well constructed and sound great.
-Jesse

ELGEric
11-28-1999, 03:56 AM
you guys have your heads up your asses! Why would you pay double the price for something that sounds so similar? DON'T BUY AN ECLIPSE!!! If you want sq, get a dynaudio sub. If you want spl, get a gz hydrogen or gz nuke.

Peace

ELGEric
11-28-1999, 03:56 AM
you guys have your heads up your asses! Why would you pay double the price for something that sounds so similar? DON'T BUY AN ECLIPSE!!! If you want sq, get a dynaudio sub. If you want spl, get a gz hydrogen or gz nuke.

Peace

DieHard
11-28-1999, 05:38 AM
eh there,

if the man likes how they sound let him buy it. It is his system not yours. I am happy with my 8812's. I have SVC (bought them before DVC's came out). but i got mine for 220..... dvc are 40 bucks more... try to dicker the guy down to the 280-300 range.

good choice and good luck,

dh

DieHard
11-28-1999, 05:39 AM
eh there,

I'm just going to pretend that i have another post, because i'm trying to hid the ISE...

dh

turok27
11-28-1999, 05:40 AM
a friend of mine at work has had the 8815s for the last 7 months and has been trying to get rid of them for the last 2. he isn't happy with them at all; in fact he said he was happier with the 12" lanzar pros he sold me sometime back. they're supposed to have a "bottomless structure" according to eclipse; but according to him they sound like they're bottoming out. after paying a bit over $1000 for the subs and custom box, he can't get rid of both of them for $300...with the box! if i had the power it takes for them i might consider giving them a try.

flippin ed
11-28-1999, 07:05 AM
Hey Turok! Get me in touch with that friend of yours! I'd be tickled pink to get a pair of 8815's! See if he'll take $50 since they suck so bad. I like things that suck!
ED

ELGEric
11-28-1999, 04:40 PM
FINALLY, someone's hearing me! I told you all, the eclipse's bottom out VERY easily. If they go in a trunk you won't hear the difference, but for me (since i got an suv) they sounded like ***. Think some more about getting that sub.

Peace

ELGEric
11-28-1999, 04:40 PM
FINALLY, someone's hearing me! I told you all, the eclipse's bottom out VERY easily. If they go in a trunk you won't hear the difference, but for me (since i got an suv) they sounded like ***. Think some more about getting that sub.

Peace

ELGEric
11-28-1999, 04:41 PM
ISE ISE baby...

CrystalMethodists
11-28-1999, 10:49 PM
Hey turok ill give him $75 =)

JStrahn
11-29-1999, 01:42 AM
This is ridiculous. Obviously you either have too much power going to your 8800s or you have them in a bad enclosure. I heard the 8812 next to a JL 12w6 off of the same amp in appropriate enclosures, and the JL bottomed out way before the Eclipse. The Eclipse also had better SQ. I wish someone that has heard the 8800s would reply because I think they are being misrepresented by those who have replied besides me.
-Jesse

RKDigital
11-29-1999, 04:28 AM
I'm gonna have to back up the pro-Eclipse party here... they're some of the best SQ subs I've heard. The 8815's are rated for over 2 inches of excursion, and I've seen 'em take almost that much. Sure weren't bottoming out.

Just Me
12-01-1999, 03:28 AM
BULLSH!T BULLSH!T BULLSH!T~!
Ok, Eclipse has this cool sub right? One year it has, I cant remember the exact figure, a 1" excursion. The next year, without re-engineering the sub or even repackaging it, all of a sudden it has a 2" excursion? BS. They do bottom out, and, in all seriousness, my 2 AW1200 audiobahn subs are louder in the same enclosure, which is factory spec for both brands of subs. I wasnt stupid running them overpower or in a ported box or anything like that, but still, they bottomed out so much I could hear it THRU my seats. In other words, I dont have a hatchback, and they are NOT alright. Oh, I also dont like JL subs. They are very fragile, which is a bad quality in a sub. My former employer, a car audio shop/installer, has a 'JL' graveyard. Lots of JL's, most broken in the same way...busted A$$ surround.
Sorry if I've stepped on your favorite brand, but I gotta say it like I hear it. Sure, they look nice and perform ok, but eclipse subs cost way too much for what they are. Actually the whole line costs way too much. High cost does NOT equal quality. Sound construction and engineering equal quality. If you like saying that your eclipse sh!t cost you a mint and more than Joe Shmoe's stuff, good for you. I, Joe Shmoe, didnt pay a mint for my stuff and it sounds awesome because I researched instead of brand favoring like lots do.

Grant17ca
12-01-1999, 03:39 AM
Umm..if you didnt read the fine print..first spec was TRUE Xmax the specs was 1.3..as in 1 way... the other spec..the 2.6 p to p is both ways...one way1.3 plus 1 way 1.3 equals peak to peak 2.6.
Its good marketting is all it is...2.6 peak to peak sound WAY better than 1.3 inches one way..
i back ProEclipse...great subs...cant **** on them...i have seenem perfrorm exceptionslaly.

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 04:57 AM
Just Me, it's funny that the magazines that tested it needed a lot of power to get the excursion high, you obviously don't know what you're doing. I believe CA&E got 1000 watts safely to the 12, and they are definitely a whole hell of a lot more intelligent than you. The linear xmax on that sub was originally stated as 0.625 inches if I remember correctly, it was either that or .65. Your box was most definitely not correct. The sub is not easy to bottom out if you have the box right and you aren't clipping the **** out of the amp or overdriving the piss out of the sub.

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 04:57 AM
ISE

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 04:59 AM
I would say that judging by their claims of poor sound quality and easy to bottom out, neither Elgeric nor Just Me were operating those subwoofers correctly.

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 05:29 AM
On the magazine thing, now that I think about it, I am not sure exactly which magazine it is. AS&S had a tiny little paragraph on it, like they do with many products, but the people that reviewed the 8800 COULD have been Carsound, CA&E, or Car Stereo Review, or quite possibly AS&S, but I don't think it was. The style(remembering what it looks like) makes me think it wasn't Carsound or CA&E. Anyone remember who had a review of one? It sucks that I remember reading it in a book store but can't place the magazine title....

Grant17ca
12-01-1999, 05:50 AM
Im with ya warbleed...i have heard these subs in a couple of set ups...most recently i have heard a pair of the Ten inchers running off of the Crossfire 1000d...that amp was tested by CSR(i think that is the one)to do well over 1200 watts RMS that is 600 per 10..they ate it up...and sounded great..not bottomed at at...
you might want to check for air leaks if he is running the box sealed...these subs tend to find air leaks pretty easily...that could be your problem...if they bottomed easily SOMETHING was wrong...and i doubt if it was the sub.
And id like to hear more about the JL graveyard...

Just Me
12-01-1999, 06:22 AM
First of all, you dont even know the damn magazine the review came from. That places your credability very low in my opinion. Also, if you ever take the time to look at any one those magazines over a long period of time, you will see that they are obviously in bed with a select few car stereo companies. Almost every car they feature will have the same kind of subs, or other components. It's kind of nice to see what they say, but you will almost never see them badmouth any product, no matter how bad it is. They have to make their money somewhere, and I can garauntee some of it comes from advertant brand favoritism. I am sorry that you believe everything you read. Oh, by the way I was driving the eclipses in a factory spec box, with a amp that puts out over 1200 watts, so I was NOT underpowering them. As far as I can tell, you dont state what you think of the subs, or how they performed for you. So, I assume you yourself have never owned them. I have. They are OK, there, I said it. But they are not $300 good. Much better subs can be had for less $$$. I dont presume to know everything, (unlike some people who will go unnamed) but I do know what I hear. What I heard was not the result of improper system design. Hell, I even took the subs in and had them put into a eclipse spec 'perfect box.' still crap. I dont have the energy to rant anymore. Bye bye.

Just Me
12-01-1999, 06:35 AM
On the JL graveyard...
This shop used to back JL pretty much all the way. Everyone who came was convinced to get them. Then all of a sudden they start coming back broken. Some were fried by stupid people, sure. I know of some kids who were trying to wire their own 3 12w6's and didnt know how to do it right and ended up doing stuff like wiring 2 of the subs to a 32ohm load and the other to a 3ohm load, obviously they had problems. But the majority of the ones returned were installed in-shop, by the dealer. I myself had a pair that went. The surround either breaks or separates from the cone. You cant even tell, other than the obvious reduction in bass response. You notice when you hear this weird noise that sounds like bottoming out, but not quite. It's the sound of the ripped surround flapping against the woofer. I almost could have cried when I saw mine.

On another note, how can one sub 'find' leaks more than another? Is that going to be listed as a spec from now on? "Leak Sensitivity : 100"
Every speaker doesnt like leaks. It doesnt matter what the sub has printed on the dust cap, they all work on the same principles, and work under the same laws of physics. If the back wave is not isolated from the front wave, response decreases. Or something like that. I would like to know who started that BS rumor. I would also like to see a sub that breaks the laws of physics.

CrystalMethodists
12-01-1999, 07:45 AM
Well I have to respond to the Jl Grave yard factor.I have a few friends who own JL audio subs and they power the hell out of them,yet I have not seen this bone yard effect you are talking about(just me).In fact I think JL subs are very modest in thier power handling.Im with Wirehound on this one practice safe stereo,dont smoke crack before you wire your stereo.

CrystalMethodists
12-01-1999, 07:46 AM
Well I have to respond to the Jl Grave yard factor.I have a few friends who own JL audio subs and they power the hell out of them,yet I have not seen this bone yard effect you are talking about(just me).In fact I think JL subs are very modest in thier power handling.Im with Wirehound on this one practice safe stereo,dont smoke crack before you wire your stereo.

CrystalMethodists
12-01-1999, 07:46 AM
Well I have to respond to the Jl Grave yard factor.I have a few friends who own JL audio subs and they power the hell out of them,yet I have not seen this bone yard effect you are talking about(just me).In fact I think JL subs are very modest in thier power handling.Im with Wirehound on this one practice safe stereo,dont smoke crack before you wire your stereo.

KrazyMike
12-01-1999, 07:47 AM
i like J L subs a lot , i've owned 9 different JL subs . i 've only ever had a problem with one of them . funny though , the one that i did blow , the dealer wouldn't warranty it . come to find out the sub was reconditioned and he sold it to me without any warranty ( should have read the fine print ) .

How do you recon. a sub ?(besides changing the surround )

anyways , i'm now trying my luck with an eclipse 8810 .

anyone have any recommendation on a sealed enclosure size ?

i still love JL , i just wanted to do something different . - mike

Viking
12-01-1999, 08:11 AM
If you got loudness on, bass boost on, +12dB for 20Hz in EQ, etc, it's fairly easy to get your subs bottoming (even great ones, like Eclipse).
After all, with same SPL, 25Hz needs 4 times more excursion than 50Hz...

Viking

trunks27
12-01-1999, 08:46 AM
hey guys, how about idq subs? i've heard almost nothing but praise about these subs and a 10" dvc one is only about $150 or less! do these have stronger surrounds?

JStrahn
12-01-1999, 11:02 AM
OK, here is the highlights of the article aforementioned: Auto Sound & Security April 1999: And I quote:
"The power that we were putting into the 8810s dual coils was a staggering 520 watts RMS, or 260 watts per coil, with 2.2 dB of dynamic compression, and there was still a little thermal headroom. The driver may have taken far more power before damage, but the cone was moving a frightening distance (well over an inch) at this point."
Obviously they will take 520 watts no problem without bottoming out. hmm...sounds like you had the wrong enclosure. They had this sub in a .63 cu ft. sealed enclosure.
Although I think that there are subs out there that may be better for the money, the Eclipse IS a good sub. It DOESN'T bottom out easily, and it DOES sound great. I have heard with my own ears. If you run it correctly, I think this would be a good sub for you. That is all and drive safely...
-Jesse

JStrahn
12-01-1999, 11:02 AM
OK, here is the highlights of the article aforementioned: Auto Sound & Security April 1999: And I quote:
"The power that we were putting into the 8810s dual coils was a staggering 520 watts RMS, or 260 watts per coil, with 2.2 dB of dynamic compression, and there was still a little thermal headroom. The driver may have taken far more power before damage, but the cone was moving a frightening distance (well over an inch) at this point."
Obviously they will take 520 watts no problem without bottoming out. hmm...sounds like you had the wrong enclosure. They had this sub in a .63 cu ft. sealed enclosure.
Although I think that there are subs out there that may be better for the money, the Eclipse IS a good sub. It DOESN'T bottom out easily, and it DOES sound great. I have heard with my own ears. If you run it correctly, I think this would be a good sub for you. That is all and drive safely...
-Jesse

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 04:05 PM
That would be the article! thanks. That basically renders Just Me's and Elgeric's statements on the subs being easy to bottom out useless.

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 04:08 PM
damn ISEs

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 04:13 PM
I HAVE listened to various material on the 8800 series(8812 DVCs to be exact). Excellent sounding woofers. They went very low and sounded very good. They were running off of a PPI PC1400.

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 04:13 PM
dammit! It was a 2400.

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 04:14 PM
wow 2 internal server errors this fast, what a great way to start out the day...

Dom
12-01-1999, 05:14 PM
I listened to 2 15s with 800W going into them and they were badly underpowered. They sounded like 1 10.

I do think that they are way overpriced and the fact that you can't find one on the net makes it even more of a difference. I would rather get Alumapro Alchemys for $265 then Aluminums for close to $400 since you have to add tax.

Dom
12-01-1999, 05:15 PM
.

Dom
12-01-1999, 05:16 PM
.

Dom
12-01-1999, 05:19 PM
.

Dom
12-01-1999, 05:19 PM
.

Dom
12-01-1999, 05:22 PM
.

Dom
12-01-1999, 05:24 PM
.

DieHard
12-01-1999, 10:39 PM
eh there,

turok27: Hook me up with them subs, if there 8815's. I got a serious offer.

Article info: It was in CA&E too. And they feed the sub 8812.6 1000watts of power and it handled it fine.

dh

DieHard
12-01-1999, 10:41 PM
and i don't what anyone says.... ISE suck!

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 11:54 PM
dammit. it was CA&E then. I remembered it being a 12 with 1000, and that confirms it. The little snippet I read was from AS&S then. Glad it's finally cleared up.

Warbleed
12-01-1999, 11:55 PM
That's like the 6th ISE of the day...

Warbleed
12-02-1999, 12:10 AM
7th...

JStrahn
12-02-1999, 11:07 AM
Hmm...AS&S had an article also, the one I quoted from, It was covering both the 8810DVC and the Eclipse 3 way component system, anyhow, obviously they can take wattage. Are they worth the price? Suspect I would say...there are a lot of good subs out there that don't have the price tag.
-Jesse

Grant17ca
12-02-1999, 05:15 PM
i just wanted to clear something up about whay i said about air leaks...it is because of their nature they do in fact find them...just like a Kicker Isobaric..pretty damn picky on their boxes...
because of their small sealed box nature, and high power handling, there is going to be more air movement and pressure inside the box...an Eclipse 12 you could put in a .8 cuft box...and then feed it 800 watts and you are going to have some major movement in that box...now lets say, a JL 12w0...put it in a 1.4 cuft box and only feed it 150 watts...of course it is not going to move as much air, and not be as affected by a leak...

Grant17ca
12-02-1999, 05:16 PM
hey ISE...your momma was a snowblower!!!

Grant17ca
12-02-1999, 05:20 PM
oh yeah, about bottoming out subs...talk to GZ man about it...he knows ALOT about the way a sub works...anyways you can bottom the hell out of a sub with low frequencies...especially the sub 20hz frequencies...like a GZ Nuke 12 you couldnt get to even bottom out playing lets say 40 hz awith 1000 watts...but when you drop it down to the low frequencies look out...Rainman, runs his nuke all day long wiht 800 watts and it never bottoms at all, and then he said he threw some LOW frequencies at it, and it couldnt handle near as much...so if you were pumping some below 20 hz info at it that could make it bottom at a lower wattage.

Grant17ca
12-02-1999, 05:22 PM
oh damn ISE, tonight you will be sodomized by the evil computer elves.

Grant17ca
12-02-1999, 05:23 PM
Oh third time today huh?? you want some? ill kick your ***...you dont want none son!! so shut the f#ck up and leave me alone!!!

Grant17ca
12-02-1999, 05:24 PM
Theres number 4 you **** eyed piece of sh#t!!!
If i handle a rubber hose i would beat you silly

Grant17ca
12-02-1999, 05:25 PM
Number 5...is that a record???
I swear, the Car Audio God is going to damn you to HELL for that

Warbleed
12-02-1999, 08:27 PM
Yeah, but excursion plots should reveal whether or not the subwoofer will bottom out at certain frequencies. I believe boxplot2 accounts for that, hence it's indicated power handling at certain frequencies.

I will say this:

Before you say they bottom out easy or sound poor, make sure you have thoroughly checked the following:

1. Box is perfectly sealed, no air leaking even at high volumes

2. Box is proper size

3. They are not being overdriven by too much
bass boost or gain.

4. You aren't beasting on it with a ridiculous amount of power.


Following those directions I can't see anyone actually bottoming an Eclipse without an excess of 750 watts. CA&E was unable to bottom the 12 with 1000 watts...

JStrahn
12-02-1999, 08:32 PM
any sub will bottom out if you send it high volume frequecies below the tuned frequency of the box it is in. But, as far as bottoming out easy, NO.
-Jesse

JStrahn
12-02-1999, 08:33 PM
ISE's can lick my balls